
I’ve spoken a lot about the differences between the online photography community and the traditional industry side of photography. I come from the industry side, so perhaps I’m biased, but I wanted to share a recent experience, and also share what a typical week looks like when it comes to the kind of folks I’m associating with. Once you see the list and see the kind of things they are working on, I believe you will be able to see why I view the online community the way I do, which is to say, mostly uninspiring. It’s not to say there isn’t good work in the online space. There is, but to find it, you must wade through a deluge of clickbait, misinformation, and gear-based nonsense delivered by untrained, unqualified people who, in many cases, have never done professional work. If you choose ONE of the links below, and spiral out, you will begin to see what the professional industry side has to offer.
Find someone you like. Look at their commercial work. Look at their personal projects. Look at their gallery, or the museums they have worked with, and who else those galleries and museums have exhibited. Look at the agency they are with and who else that agency represents. Look at their books and publishers, and who else those same publishers have printed. What you will find is night and day beyond what you find online.
But be warned, once you read this list, you might not view your gear review films in quite the same light.
Another note. I know I’m leaving people out, so I apologize in advance. This is not about bragging. This is about how I do my job, and where I spend my time. I did not talk to all of these people. Some I texted with, and others were just a site visit. I will note this next to the links. These people are better than me. They are more talented, focused, and driven, and they produce superior works to mine. These people push me to be better.
Okay, this all started with a trip to CENTER for an opening with Heather Mattera, whom I did speak with. We had a lovely chat about her project. Her exhibition was beautiful and more than just prints on the wall. There were mini installations and a film that rounded out the story and project. Well done, CENTER. Speaking of the prints, those were done by Steve Zeifman at Rush Creek Editions, who is a master printer and book publisher. I also had a nice chat with Steve and his wife, who is a fireball and a former wardrobe specialist in the movie industry.
While in the CENTER space, I visited the book area and looked at books by Susan Meiselas and Lauren Greenfield. I’ve known Susan since sending her a portfolio right after graduating from photo school. She sent my portfolio back with a long letter. That’s a class act. And Lauren, I know a little bit from my time in Los Angeles. Seeing her name reminded me to have a look at Institute Artist. The other book I looked at was Suburbia Mexicana by Alejandro Cartejena, arguably the best photobook maker of the past decade. I first saw Suburbia Mexicana as a Blurb book. The Museum of Fine Arts in Houston made a serious acquisition of his work, the same museum that was interested in my one-off journals and notebooks. I know Alejandro, barely, from meeting him at Review Santa Fe. So, yes, I visited the museum site and Alejandro’s site to see what was what.
Also in attendance at CENTER was Joanna Hurley from Hurley Media, with whom I had a long conversation. Joanna has been designing, publishing, and packaging photo books for forty years. She took our Morocco workshop and is heading to Japan with us later in the year. She and I had a long talk about the importance of story in photography and books. (Yes, hipsters, it matters.) Also said hello to Peter Ogilvie. I don’t know Peter that well, but I want to know him better. I need to try to pin him down for an interview. He’s had quite the career. I did talk with his wife. (Pumas in Chile.) Also attending was Jamey Stillings. Jamey is a gem. (Has a big show at the upcoming FotoFest.) You can always tell a lot about someone by interacting with their children. Jamey’s kids are stellar, and his wife Esha is an accomplished photographer who won a National Geographic Explorer’s Grant a few years ago and is constantly in the field. She is a total badass. Finally, and again, I know I’m leaving people out, was Thomas Werner. Holy shit. His site should keep you busy for a long while. I don’t even know where to start. I didn’t get a chance to talk with Thomas, which is a mistake on my part.
And then we ventured to a party celebrating Black History Month. What a blast. Every race, every gender, every demographic. Poetry readings, fantastic food, and a DJ who had everyone dancing, including my wife, who CAN DANCE. There was a woman who danced with her dog, and an unhoused guy who made his way in, had some food, and walked around with the biggest grin on his face. On a cold and rainy night, it was nice to see him getting a little love.
What I noticed right off the bat was the wall of books. Because I suck at dancing, and I know my wife is better off without me, I made my way to the libros. Lo and behold, there was a photobook section, loaded with books from Radius. If you don’t know this publisher, well, you just lost the next few days of your life investigating all the artists they represent. (Yes, this is worth your time.) And right in the middle of the stack was “Publish Your Photography Book,” by Mary Virginia Swanson and Darius Himes, now in at least its third printing.
Darius and I have been friends for years. He was the head judge on Blurb’s infamous Photography Book Now Contest ($25,000 first prize) and was also one of the founders of Radius Books. He’s now the International Head of Photographs for Christie’s. We used to do an art school tour of the US, where I would talk about self-publishing and he would talk about traditional publishing. Mary, also known as “Swannie,” has had a legendary career in photography and is also part of one of the best photobook symposiums ever. La Luz hosts this event, so ya, I took a look through their site again, too. (I was a speaker last year.)Back at the party, I realize, “Oh, I’m in this book,” as you will see in the images in this post. (I did not talk to Darius or Swannie.)
So, the web spins deeper. If you look at the images on “my” spread in the book, you will see collaborative books. Who did I collaborate with? People like Zoë Sadokierski, Andrew Kaufman, Chloe Ferres, and Michael Napper. I did a live event with Zoë last week, haven’t spoken with Kaufman or Ferres in a while, but did write Michael two letters over the past seven days. (We only communicate via the mail, and have for twenty-five years.) Finding this book at the party felt like a tectonic shift. It wasn’t, but it felt like it, because it felt like I’d somehow infiltrated the world. It took thirty years of photography and fifteen years of wearing the Blurb badge. And it took doing my own thing.
Okay, in an effort to keep this post from becoming one long run-on life sentence, let me list my other connections from the week. In no particular order.
Elena Dorfman. Several phone calls, many texts.
The Art Director’s Club. Site visit only. Something I do regularly. I’ve been to their annual awards event and was completely and utterly intimidated and blown away. If you ONLY followed this link, it would keep you busy for months. This iconic international non-profit award show honors the best creative talent and groundbreaking work across many different creative disciplines, including advertising, digital media, graphic and publication design, packaging and product design, motion, gaming, experiential and architecture, photography, illustration, and all points in between.
Flemming Bo Jensen. Text. Known for riding his bike during an arctic freeze, while listening to Deep Dark Danish Dub. (check out his music work.)
Stephen Shore. Email, but I owe him a call next week. This will be my first time speaking with him. #legend
Brendan Bannon. Text. Lovely man who does an incredible program for veterans.
Wim Jansen. Text. Check out his work covering the food industry.
Greg Hatton. Text but supposed to talk this week. Greg is cool. I’m not cool, so when I see someone who is cool, I know it: a cinematographer and photographer.
Frank Jackson. Facetime call. Legend, oddball, obtuse shape on a board filled with cookie-cutter cutouts.
Richard Kelly. Text, but need to make a call. I love Richie. And Richie is friends with Duane who I also love. I don’t know Duane well, but his work has made a huge impact on me. So, ya, I had to have a look at his work.
Jim Lanahan. Text. Former colleague and high-twitch individual. Does not suffer fools. Loves to get to the point, and is a WAY better photographer than I knew.
Normal Mauskopf. Phone and text. One of my mentors. Art Center grad, numerous books, loves to process film.
Lawrence Fodor. No contact, but visited his site. A local artist who I find incredibly inspiring. Larry is a five-tool creative. Write, paint, shoot, build, sculpt.
Paris Review. Site visit. Long-time subscriber.
Terry Tempest Williams. Site visit to see if she had any new books.
Gretel Ehrlich. Site visit to see if she had new books. Heard through the grapevine she now lives in Santa Fe. (cool)
Andrew Peacock. Text. He is on a ship, so there’s that. Climber, paddler, swimmer, photographer. Makes beautiful work.
Stuart Isett. Text. One of my fav people in photography. We met thirty-ish years ago at Visa. Based all over the world, can shoot anything.
Raw Society. Text, but attending their festival in May, so we are in regular communication.
Hank Willis Thomas. Site visit. I can’t get enough of what this guy does.
Yesterday afternoon, I went to a local bar. I went because my wife wanted to go to hear a particular band. Another friend was there, and two more of her friends arrived. We were introduced, and when these two other women found out I was a photographer, one said, “Oh, I had a commercial studio for thirty years, in Los Angeles, Sydney, and Whitefish,” and the other said, “I was a stylist in Los Angeles for thirty years, do you know Greg Gorman, Jeff Dunas, etc.” I said, “Yes, those are my friends.” (Greg is a legend, one of the most generous people I’ve met, and one of my favorite people overall. Jeff has a connection back to the early days of Blurb, has one of the best photobook collections in history, and is the founder of Palm Springs Photo Festival.
I always encourage people to send me links. Let me know what they are seeing. When people send links from the online photography space, I mostly take a look at the title or thumbnail and take a quick pass. The information is mostly irrelevant or focused on equipment. The old, old, old tired gear conversation is one of the prime reasons people make fun of photographers. We tend to lean toward the geek side of things.
I hear meaningless arguments about things like only using old, used equipment, or how film makes you a “real photographer.” I see links to 50mm lens comparisons. I see things that have nothing to do with actual photography. When someone is exposed to the kinds of things and people I mention above, none of this other stuff matters because it’s nothing more than pure distraction from work. If I’m going to distract myself, it’s going to be with Jim. (Yes, I just visited his site.)
Oftentimes, when speaking about the industry side of things, I’m met with comments like, “Oh, you had an unfair advantage,” and “You are so lucky.” These are inaccurate and unfair statements. Was I “lucky” that one school lost my transcripts, so that I was forced to go to another school, where I found photography? Maybe, but it sure didn’t feel like it at the time. Snowflakes scoff at school, even many of those who have the opportunity to go but choose not to, looking for that shortcut to fame and fortune tied to things like going viral and the dreaded likes and subs. Confusing following with talent.
The people, events, and entities I mention above are all out there, all over the world. No matter where you live, you can find these types of people and things, but if you can’t because you live on Jupiter’s moon, you can find all of these people, places, and things online. You have a choice. Spend time with things that matter, or be distracted and accomplish nothing.
Many of you are consumer-level photographers, prosumers, or hobbyists with no intention of becoming professionals, something I’ve encouraged for years. Don’t be a pro now. Keep it personal, keep it fun. But many of you TALK like you want to be pros, but spend your time engaging with material that isn’t connected to the professional world. For you folks, time to get serious.
There are some weeks I wish I weren’t connected to all these people. I’m an introvert, so I like silence and isolation, but as I mentioned before, engaging with these people is like being stung by a bee. It makes you take stock of your decision making paradym. There is no time to waste. There is no time to be lazy. There is no time for extended distraction. If you are serious about photography, you have a decision to make.
Comments 10
“Give my Compliments to the Chef” 🐊
Author
You gonna eat your fat? Spalding!
It’s going to take a while, but that is quite the rabbit hole to dive down, following those links. Thank you. The current library book is Revelations, by Wynn Bullock. Absolutely fascinating.
Author
That’s the point. That’s a typical week for me, so once you get exposed to THOSE kind of people, lurking in the online photography world feels even more like empty calories.
That’s an info heavy post Dan. I thank you for it as I slipped into a weird headspace today which makes me feel like a wuss since it’s a literal week since surgery. I fully admit to making a pretty decent ass groove in my couch some weekends, but that is by choice and while realizing all of the other things I could be doing. I am now in forced down time which is a strange thing. There are certainly things I can do and will do, but this afternoon was interesting.
My most immediate takeaway from the above is a question regarding the portfolio you sent to Susan Meiselas. Can you speak a bit regarding print size, number, and packaging? Additionally, would you still send that same format of portfolio out in 2026?
Author
You have an excuse! I’ll add the portfolio piece to my next film!
I made 12 book dummies of He Threw the Last Punch Too Hard with Blurb and Daniel Milnor’s help before the project was a finalist at the CDS/Honickman Duke University 1st Book Prize in Photography in 2014, Semi-finalist in 2016 at CDS/Honickman, numerous portfolio reviews, blogging for years to work on writing and studying how to write for 10 years before finding a legitimate book publisher. I’m not sure the average bear understands what it actually takes to publish a book in the traditional way. Persistence, dedication, relentlessness and a bit of madness. Immortalizing my mother by sharing her story and helping others was the end goal. Thank you for this post, Milnor.
Author
You and me Hannah! I was also a finalist for the Honickman 1st Book Prize! And yes, I think most of the significant accomplishments in photography take years. And that doesn’t take into consideration the time to make the work.
I tried being a pro years ago and frickin’ hated it. Very happy to not care nowadays.
That’s a great list to get through!
Author
I quite fifteen years ago. Fell out of love with BEING a photographer, but still love photography as much as I did in 1988. Much of what I do still gets used in professional ways, but that’s not how it originates. I think a lot of folks who think they want to be professional photographers confuse YouTube photography with the industry. They are in for a rude awakening. And yes, I think most people would be far happier to keep things on the hobby side. You can take a hobby seriously.